A Chân y Siarc wedi gorffen, a phawb wrthi hefyd yn cyfieithu Harri Potter i'r Gymraeg, beth am ddechrau prosiect cyfieithu newydd o'r Gymraeg? Awgrymodd rhai y dylen ni wneud Meic Stevens, felly dyma ni.
**NB: rheolau newydd y tro 'ma - pawb i restru geirfa llawn ar gyfer pob llinell (fel sydd yn yr enghraifft ). Hefyd, pawb i roi crynodeb o ychydig o bwyntiau gramadegol diddorol (treigladau, etc.) Bydd hyn yn ei wneud yn fwy o 'spectator sport', a hefyd yn well ymarfer.
Môr o Gariad
Eistedd yma'n unig 'ben fy hun
Heno 'sdim amynedd i helbul byd
Ond mae'r nos yn ffoi, fel mae'r byd yn troi
Fel y môr o gariad a roddais iti.
'Sdim byd yma heno ond adlais cariad mawr
Ac ein gwydrau gweigion ar y llawr
Ac i gwpla'r llun; yn y botel gwaddod gwin
Gwaddod y môr o gariad a roddais iti
Hwn oedd cariad glân
Hwn oedd cariad ffôl
Roeddwn i ar dân
'Nawr 'sdim ar ôl
Atgofion fydd amdani - ei serch a'i dawn
Serch hynny, mae'n rhaid byw, ymuno efo hwyl y criw
Sych yw'r môr o gariad a roddais iti
Eistedd yma'n unig 'ben fy hun
ReplyDeleteeistedd sitting (vn)
yma here
'n = 'yn', predicative particle
unig lonely, alone
ben fy hun = 'ar ben fy hun', on my own [also written 'ar fy mhen fy hun']
Does dim treigladau yn y llinell yma.
= Sitting here lonely, on my own
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ReplyDeleteMona,
ReplyDeleteI took off most of your comment since it broke the new house rules of a line at a time! [teyrn yn y ty^!]. This way (I hope) we'll get to discuss what we're not sure of, and better understand the language we're translating. It'll also make it easier for those who are following without participating to understand what's happening (and possibly learn from our work).
Here's the second line back, as you translated it. I've supplied the vocab list - do you want to finish the translation and add any other thoughts (or questions to discuss)?
Heno 'sdim amynedd i helbul byd
heno tonight
'sdim = "does dim" 'there is/are no(t)" [negative existential construction]
amynedd patience
i for (prep. with 'amynedd')
helbul trouble, trials, etc.
byd world
Tonight ___ no patience for ___ world
Mona - anghofiais ddweud: gwaith da iawn! Mae'r cyfan lot yn barod gyda ti 'nawr i'w roi inni fesul darn! :)
ReplyDelete(Ac rwyt ti wedi rhoi 'cheat sheet' i'r gweddill ohonon ni!)
Ok, sori Aled. So the rheolau newydd means we do one line at a time?
ReplyDeleteAnd the second line says, "Tonight there is no patience for the world's troubles/trials"?
Mona
Yn hollol! "helbul byd" = 'the trouble of the world' or 'the world's trouble'.
ReplyDeleteFelly:
tonight there's no patience for the trouble of the world
Gwych! Nawr 'te - y llinell nesa'...
Ond mae'r nos yn ffoi, fel mae'r byd yn troi.
By the way - the main blog text for this translation project contains "rollover" translations of many words - just hover the mouse over them to see the English (e.g. "rheolau" will give you the translation "rules").
ReplyDeleteOnd mae'r nos yn ffoi, fel mae'r byd yn troi
ReplyDeleteBut the night flees, as the earth turns?
Mona (doing this from memory as I didn't keep a copy of my full translating effort)
Cw^l! 100% A+
ReplyDeleteOK, so the meaning is there - now, then: what are the individual words? (i.e. how does this line *work*)?
Dim yn siwr--it is pretty word-for-word, me thinks.
ReplyDeleteFel y môr o gariad a roddais iti.
ReplyDeleteDw i ddim ymdeall y hwn 'ma.
'As the sea of love and and a gift to you'
does not make sense...
Beth ydy "roddais iti"? Hint, os gwelewch yn dda!
So, to finish work on the second line, here's the vocab:
ReplyDeleteond but
mae is (third person singular, 'bod')
'r contracted form of 'y(r)', 'the'
nos night
yn verbal particle ('imperfective': used to indicate that the verbal action is not completed)
ffoi fleeing, escaping (vn)
fel as, like
byd world
yn verbal particle again as above
troi turning (vn)
but the night flees, as the world turns
And likewise, for the third:
fel like, as
y definite article ('the')
môr sea
o of (causes soft mutation)
cariad love
a relative pronoun ('which, who' etc.; causes soft mutation)
rhoddais past tense of 'rhoi'; first person singular
iti inflected form of 'i': 'to you'
like the sea of love (which) I gave to you.
Cwestiynau? Beth am y llinell nesaf?
Who fancies the next line, with word-lists (they don't have to be dreadfully detailed)?
'Sdim byd yma heno
ReplyDeleteThere is no world here tonight
'Sdim = There is no
byd = world
yma = here
heno = tonight
Mona:
ReplyDeleteYep...
'sdim is indeed again the contracted form of does dim 'there is no(t)' [itself contracted from nid oes dim] but "dim byd" most commonly translates as 'nothing'. So 'sdim byd yma heno = 'there's nothing here tonight'.
Diolch! Phrase newydd--dim byd!
ReplyDeleteOnd adlais cariad mawr
ReplyDeleteond-but
adlais-echo
cariad-love
mawr-big, great
"There's nothing here tonight but the echo of great love"?
Yay! Da iawn!
ReplyDeletedim byd ... ond = nothing ... but
there's nothing here tonight but the echo of (a) great love.
[grammar point for 'eavesdroppers': notice that two nouns next to each other in a Welsh clause are in a genitive relationship; i.e. the first one is possessed by the second one. Here we have [adlais] [cariad mawr], i.e. [echo][(a) great love] which translates as "(the) echo (of) a great love." Watch out for this structure in future. I usually refer to this as the "(the) X of Y" structure since "XY" in welsh gives "(the) X of Y" in English (or, of course, "Y's X".
Pwy sy' eisiau gwneud y llinell nesa'?
Ac ein gwydrau gweigion ar y llawr
ReplyDeleteac-and
ein-our
gwydrau-I get "goggles," but I don't know if there's a different meaning in this context.
gweigion-Dim syniad. But I'm guessing it's an adjective.
ar-on
llawr-floor
"And our 'gweigion' goggles are on the floor."
It sounds ridiculous. Am I way off, here?
OK, let's analyse the words you couldn't find:
ReplyDeletegwydrau has the plural ending -au, so the singular, gwydr, might give a hint.
likewise, gweigion, which you correctly guess to be an adjective (unmutated after the plural noun), has the plural ending -ion. That leaves gweig- and we should bear in mind internal vowel changes (e.g. "a" -> "ei").
You have the verb 'to be' in your translation, Maegan ('are...'). That might be a little brave of you! :)
gwag - adjective. empty, vain, vacant. for a plural noun: gweigion. Nodyn sillafu - There are two hints that this is a plural adjective, felly, yr o^l-ddodiad "-ion" ac yr "-ei-" ... Mae'r "-a-" yn mynd i "-e-" yn y plural [fel bachgen --> bechgyn).. so, hop the the geiriadur .. "gwag. ll. gweigion"
ReplyDeletegwydr - glass pl. gwydrau.
empty glasses
This ties in poetically with the emptiness of his life ...
Grêt! Da iawn, Shirley a Megan:
ReplyDelete'Sdim byd yma heno ond adlais cariad mawr
Ac ein gwydrau gweigion ar y llawr
There's nothing here tonight but the echo of (a) great love,
And our empty glasses on the floor.
Ymlaen â ni? Oes cwestiynau?
sori. recte: "Maegan"
ReplyDeleteAc i gwpla'r llun; yn y botel gwaddod gwin
ReplyDeleteAnd to complete the picture; in the bottle of sediment of wine
i --> trygladd meddal ar "cwpla" .. forming an infinitive (?)
genetive relationship of 3 adjacent nouns: botel, gwaddod, gwin.
It sounds stilted to say "sediment of wine" .. but it leads into the next line where "sediment" best comes before the words that closed the first stanza.
Gwaddod y môr o gariad a roddaist iti.
ReplyDeleteThe sediment of the sea of love that I gave to you.
"The" - definite article because the rest of the line defines which sediment it is.
ô - & # 2 4 4 ; (omit the spaces when in the edit mode)
missing a verb [bod] here -- poetic license. "is" - implied by "heno" (tonight)
"o" - one of the prepositions that causes soft mutation.
a - relative pronoun that causes soft mutation
iti - conjugated second person familiar form of the pronoun "i".
Dim problem. My name gets mispelled all the time.
ReplyDeleteHwn oedd cariad glan
hwn-this
oedd-imperfect tense of 'bod'
glan-clean, or maybe 'pure' would work better here
"This was pure love"
OK. Gwd.
ReplyDeleteWe need, though, to think again about the couplet with the sediment.
yn y botel is adverbial (i.e. it doesn't take part in the genitive noun phrase).
Ydy hynny'n helpu?
Dw i'n gwybod "yn + ansoddair" = adferb .. Mae hon "yn + enw" .... Beth sy' wedi disgrifio "yn y botel"? ... ferb? ansoddair? Mae "Yn y botel" yn disgrifio ble ydy'r "gwaddod y môr o gariad ..."
ReplyDeleteAnd to complete the picture: Bottled in the sediment of wine / the sediment of the sea of love that I gave to you.
More natural to the English ear:
And to complete the picture: The sediment of the ocean of love that I gave to you is bottled in the sediment of wine.
Rwyt ti'n iawn, Shirley, pan wyt ti'n dweud:
ReplyDelete"Mae "yn y botel" yn disgrifio ble [mae] "gwaddod y môr o gariad.""
Ie - adferf yw "yn y botel": 'in the bottle'.
Felly:
And to complete the picture: in the bottle[,] remnants (sediment) of wine;
(the) remnants of the sea of love which I gave you.
Mae Maegan wedi dechrau'r llinell nesa' - awn ni ymlaen, neu a oes cwestiynau ynghylch hyn hyd yma?
Hwn oedd cariad ffôl
ReplyDeleteThis was (a) fool's love
Y tôn o'r lun sy' yr un ac y lun flaenorol. Mae'r geir yn archeb yr un hefyd (yn Gymraeg). Yn Saesneg mae ansoddair yn mynd ymlaen yr enw. Felly, rhaid i fi ddewis "fool's love" neu "a fool's love" na "the love of a fool." OND: Dw i'n credu bod "the love of a fool" yn well yn Saesneg na "fool's love" achos y gariad honno sy' cariad arbenigol. Felly:
This was the love of a fool.
Hwn oedd cariad gla^n; hwn oedd cariad ffo^l
ReplyDeleteRydych chi, Maegan a Shirley, yn iawn, wrth gwrs. Eto, Shirley, tybed a oes ffordd arall o ddehongli "cariad ffo^l"? (Ychydig yn debycach i hanner cynta'r llinell, efallai.)
[sylwn, wrth fynd heibio, nad yw trefn y geiriau yn 'normal' fan hyn, gyda 'hwn' yn dod yn gyntaf - trefn 'farddonol' braidd, efallai]
A pure love was this / A fool's love was this
ReplyDeleteA pure love was this / A foolish love was this
ReplyDeleteRoeddwn i ar dân
ReplyDelete'Nawr 'sdim ar ôl
I was on fire
Now there is no trace
OK, amysif - beth am y geiriau unigol?
ReplyDelete"Amysif" ydw i.
ReplyDeleteHelo, Shirley! Sut wyt ti? Do'n i ddim yn gwybod pwy oedd yn cuddio tu o^l i'r enw 'na! :)
ReplyDeleteRoeddwn - first person imperfect singular of bod. I was
ReplyDeletei - I
ar dân - on fire
'Nawr - Yn awr ... in air? barddonol .. going back to the roots of "nawr" ..?
'sdim - ydys dim (impersonal present of bod) + nothing
ar ôl - remaining
ok .. forget the ôl=trace or track ..
I was on fire
Now there is none remaining
Yn 'nghell dw i ....
ReplyDeleteShirley -
ReplyDeleteDw i ddim cweit yn deall y "cell", ond ar wahân i hynny:
:) ie!
yn hollol - mae nawr yn tarddu o yn awr.
ond nid in air - yr 'awr' yma yw 'hour'.
(mae rwan hefyd yn tarddu o yn yr awr hon, ac felly pam mae pobl yn dal i ddweud yrwan hefyd).
Strydoedd oer y ddinas, strydoedd mor llawn
ReplyDeletecold streets of the city, streets so full
stryd - street. Mae sŵn yr "y" yn wahanol yn strydoedd.
oer - cold; oblaen enw --> treiglad meddal
dinas - city; benywaidd unigol. "Y" --> treiglad meddal
mor - so
llawn - full
Atgofion fydd amdani - ei serch a'i dawn
ReplyDelete(Being) with her will be a memory - her love and her power
atgof - rememberance / memory
fydd - third person singular future bod
am - with / around. Amdani - feminine form
flip the word order with copula in English
serch a dawn - not sure what overtones there are in these words. Dictionary just said love and power ...
wwps ... a'i dawn .. and HER .. 'sdim treiglad meddal ar "dawn" ...
ReplyDeleteobvious from the context, too ...
1. cofiwn y rheol:
ReplyDelete"XY" yn Gymraeg --> "(the/a) X of Y" yn Saesneg
felly:
[strydoedd oer] [y ddinas]
--> (the) [cold streets] of [the city]
2. Does dim byd y gall "oer" achosi treiglad iddo yn fan hyn. Yr enw sy'n mynd gydag 'oer' yw 'strydoedd', ac mae 'oer' yn dod ar ei ôl). Ond rwyt ti'n hollol gywir am y treiglad ar ôl "y".
3. Mae problem gyda'r llinell nesa':
atgofion fydd amdani
amdani around/about her
dawn talent, gift (nid power)
Dylwn fod wedi nodi: yn Gymraeg, byddwch chi'n gwisgo dillad amdanoch.
ReplyDeleteSerch hynny, mae'n rhaid byw, ymuno efo hwyl y criw
ReplyDeleteThis (is) love, it is a necessity of living, uniting with itself wind and crew
serch - love
hynny - this. rhagenw.
mae'n - not sure why the "yn" got attached to mae (third person singular of bod, but I think the pronoun got absorbed in there, too. Mae e'n rhaid byw
rhaid - necessity. Usually translated "necessary" ..
byw - ferbenw. living.
genitive relationship rhwyng 'rhaid' a 'byw'
ymuno - ferbenw. uniting.
efo - masculine (which is why it's mae e'n instead of mae hi'n). "Long form" of "e" or "o" or "fe" ...
hwyl - the wind that fills the sails ..
criw - crew .. the muscle that makes the vessel move ..
love + spirit + body = living
Bron â bod!
ReplyDeleteMae serch yn gallu golygu 'love', mae'n wir, ond dydy "[enw] + [hynny]" dim yn golygu dim yn Gymraeg.
Rwyt ti'n cyfieithu "this is love" - yn Gymraeg, hynny fyddai "Dyma gariad" neu "hwn/hynny yw cariad" (neu "dyma serch" etc.). Fedri di ddim rhoi'r "hynny" ar ôl yr enw yn yr achos yna.
Na - ystyr y serch yma, cyn y dangosol ('demonstrative') yw 'although', 'in spite of'. Felly, serch hynny = in spite of that
Hefyd, un neu ddau wall pwysig arall:
mae'n rhaid [berfenw] = one must [verb] neu you have to [verb]
hwyl = fun
efo = gyda [efô = efe]
y this is the def. article, not the connective ('and').
*hwyl - taith; cwrs, rhediad; mantell. Journey; course; cloak; ...
ReplyDeletehwyl - 1. cyflwr, mwynhad, tymer. Mood.
2. cynfas ar hwylbren llong. Sail.
3. ffordd arbennig o ddweud neu lafarganu wrth annerch, etc. Sing-song, Cadence.
...
hwylio - to sail
uniting with the mood of the crew
Sych yw'r môr o gariad a roddais iti
ReplyDeleteDry is the sea of love that I gave to you.
Sych - dry. complement in this sentence
yw - present tense bod (copula here)
'r - definite article after a vowel ("yr")
The rest was given by Gwybedyn
August 4, 2009 12:42 PM
Atgofion fydd amdani - ei serch a'i dawn
ReplyDeleteAround her will be memories - her affection and her talent
fydd - bydd. soft mutation after complement
a - and
2. Does dim byd y gall "oer" achosi treiglad iddo yn fan hyn. Yr enw sy'n mynd gydag 'oer' yw 'strydoedd', ac mae 'oer' yn dod ar ei ôl). Ond rwyt ti'n hollol gywir am y treiglad ar ôl "y".
ReplyDeleteAugust 10, 2009 6:33 PM
Dw i ddim yn deall. I translated "Strydoedd oer y ddinas, strydoedd mor llawn" as
cold streets of the city, streets so full
I understand why you add the definite article (the cold streets of the city), but I felt my translation was unambiguous (particularly since it is followed by "streets so full"). How could what I wrote possibly be seen as "cold city" .. or what else could "cold" be modifying?
i) oerYour translation was fine, but I was just clarifying what you said in your explanation about 'oer' mutating the noun it precedes: "oer - cold; oblaen enw --> treiglad meddal".
ReplyDeleteii) ymuno efo hwyl y criw
beth am joining in with the fun of the gang/crew ('joining' yn lle 'uniting')?
iii) amdani
gan ystyried y metaffor taw ei dillad yn y noson oer fydd yr atgofion, a fyddai 'about her' yn dda fan hyn?
iv) a'r darn arall: serch hynny mae'n rhaid byw = 'for all that, you have to live'.
Da iawn ydw cariad llawr lng
ReplyDelete